Posts by Faithful Witness

22

Conversation with elder's wife

by Faithful Witness in

yesterday, i had a chance meeting with an acquaintance from the kh we used to attend.. after being away from the meetings for so long, and really starting to feel like i've almost entirely shed their false teachings, i have somehow lost sight of the fact that there are actually still people who really believe it.

i read the magazines now, and find it virtually impossible to comprehend how anyone can actually swallow those ideas.

it seems so warped and twisted to me now.. i guess the best way i can describe this encounter, was being "cornered" in public.

Faithful Witness

redvip: She didn't actually say that apostates were lying... just that they felt like they had to run around "telling everybody..." (forget the exact words she used, but she was starting to get upset when I asked her what she meant by apostate information).

redvip: What goes through your mind as a JW, when confronted with facts? What does the person who is not representing the society, represent in your mind?

Then I asked her if you were allowed to leave, and she told me a couple of experiences she'd had with disfellowshipped ones.

Punkofnice: I think you are right, about her mind battling with itself, although I didn't see it at the time. I don't really know the lady, but now that I am thinking back about it, I can recognize the times when her conscience was speaking over her JW persona. I really felt like I was talking to a devout JW the whole time. She seemed completely convinced she had the absolute truth, and bragged about how much research she had done, that convinced her the JWs had the real truth. At the same time, she was really good at getting me to open up.

I had run into her a few weeks ago on another errand, and we shared some small talk. When I saw her coming, I wondered if she was going to avoid me or just be polite. I didn't expect her to approach me and offer me magazines and a bible study.

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She made the comment a few times, "I don't want to waste your time. It wouldn't be fair to you either... " and I didn't know if she was realizing she was wasting her time (which I know she gets credit for as a pioneer). I did admit to her, "I probably won't become a Jehovah's Witness." She kept saying how a person had to come to their own decision, etc... but then kept offering her help.

22

Conversation with elder's wife

by Faithful Witness in

yesterday, i had a chance meeting with an acquaintance from the kh we used to attend.. after being away from the meetings for so long, and really starting to feel like i've almost entirely shed their false teachings, i have somehow lost sight of the fact that there are actually still people who really believe it.

i read the magazines now, and find it virtually impossible to comprehend how anyone can actually swallow those ideas.

it seems so warped and twisted to me now.. i guess the best way i can describe this encounter, was being "cornered" in public.

Faithful Witness

Thanks, Robert: I was looking at both those options! How much time do I want to spend on this lost cause? It will actually give me some things to talk to my mom about. She still asks me every time, if anyone has been by. She knows that JW's are drawn to my doorstep.

We live in the territory of one rural congregation, but when we moved here, we went to the meetings at the KH that shares our zip code. The other JW's always came with invitations for the memorial and sometimes with other campaigns. It sort of became a friendly joke. Then we had our BS get transferred to a less experienced JW, who is part of a 3rd congregation. So we have JW connections all over two counties, even though we were never even publishers.

I finally see the Girl Scouts are out selling their cookies here, so I will pick up some of those GS logo cookies and make sure my table is cleared off and ready for company. I should have given her my number or asked her for a specific time. I'd rather have an appointment, than a surprise visitor.

If I'm not immediately leaving, I think I will invite her in at least once and see how it goes. She is a little bit long-winded. I didn't really know her before, as she was more of an acquaintance. She spoke of at least 3 different people who are studying with her, and it really sounds like she is getting challenged by all of them. She made interesting comments, including her repeated acknowledgment that they do indeed "make adjustments. I don't really think of them as changes" in their understanding.

22

Conversation with elder's wife

by Faithful Witness in

yesterday, i had a chance meeting with an acquaintance from the kh we used to attend.. after being away from the meetings for so long, and really starting to feel like i've almost entirely shed their false teachings, i have somehow lost sight of the fact that there are actually still people who really believe it.

i read the magazines now, and find it virtually impossible to comprehend how anyone can actually swallow those ideas.

it seems so warped and twisted to me now.. i guess the best way i can describe this encounter, was being "cornered" in public.

Faithful Witness

If she actually comes to my door, I am going to ask her more about this "apostate information." What does that include?

I'm pretty sure she will go back to our original BS teacher, and he will tell her what happened. She probably won't come back, when she realizes that we DID listen to apostates. (video of ex-JWs on John Ankerberg Show).

They told us to do our research!

We presented our BS teacher (77-year old born-in JW elder) with some questions about 1975 and Beth Sarim, and he refused to answer the questions we had. He flat-out DENIED that 1975 was ever any big deal. "No one every predicted anytihng like that!" He denied any knowledge of Beth Sarim. We were so stunned by his strange reaction to our concerns. "They're fornicators! Apostates! Idolators!" (seriously... that is what he said).

We asked for a copy of the article the man was holding up on the TV. He brought us a transcribed, typewritten copy of the text of that article. We didn't bother reading it, since it was clearly a lie.

I still sort of think that if they'd handled themselves better, I could have ended up becoming a JW. Instead of answering my heartfelt concerns, the elder who was supposedly teaching us, turned his back on us and shut us out. I was already pretty heartbroken, to hear the things I was hearing about the "truth." I had spent an entire night crying over it, before we confronted him with the information we had found. When he refused to help with our questions, I was left very confused and hurt.

I'm curious to know what goes through a well-trained JW's mind, when they hear someone like me tell them (or ask them) some truth about the truth.

Do they realize they are being confronted with facts they can not deny or explain, that this person now "knows too much?"
Do they deny the facts and convince themselves you are telling lies about them?
Do their brains automatically switch to cult mode, realizing that Satan has taken over and filled this person's mind with lies?
Are they literally afraid of you, thinking you have been a wolf in sheep's clothing this whole time, just waiting to pounce on them and devour them?

As a bible student, I did start to feel more "equipped" to dispell the "lies" being told by false Christendom. They should have warned us that the truth was out there, and that apostates were eager to tell us all about it.

Sadly, I was a good student. I did understand the warnings about "stumbling" each other. I really feel like I missed a golden opportunity to share the facts with my family members, before my parents got baptized. It could have already been too late, but I do regret keeping these things to myself. I guess I was just in shock.

Having never been a JW, I am slightly surprised to notice how ashamed I started to feel, when she used the word "apostate." That never came up in our studies, until we brought that video to our teacher. The JWs really do get into your head. It took me over 2 years to do any more research or visit any ex-JW sites.

22

Conversation with elder's wife

by Faithful Witness in

yesterday, i had a chance meeting with an acquaintance from the kh we used to attend.. after being away from the meetings for so long, and really starting to feel like i've almost entirely shed their false teachings, i have somehow lost sight of the fact that there are actually still people who really believe it.

i read the magazines now, and find it virtually impossible to comprehend how anyone can actually swallow those ideas.

it seems so warped and twisted to me now.. i guess the best way i can describe this encounter, was being "cornered" in public.

Faithful Witness

Yesterday, I had a chance meeting with an acquaintance from the KH we used to attend.

After being away from the meetings for so long, and really starting to feel like I've almost entirely shed their false teachings, I have somehow lost sight of the fact that there are actually still people who really believe it. I read the magazines now, and find it virtually impossible to comprehend how anyone can actually swallow those ideas. It seems so warped and twisted to me now.

I guess the best way I can describe this encounter, was being "cornered" in public. I listened and had an enlightening discussion with this woman. Enlightened, in the sense that I realized how completely convinced most JW's are.

I think I needed a reminder that the majority of JW's are completely blind and ready to obey. I felt compassion and concern for her.

She offered to come and visit with me several times, which I accepted, but then she would take it back. It was bizarre really. At the very end of our conversation, she finally made a comment about how "I know some people will read apostate information, and then ... " (I forget what she said).

I said, "Apostate means... ???"

Apparently an apostate is someone who has known Jehovah but has left and is now PUBLISHING information, trying to make the JW's look bad. So I did ask her if JW's were allowed to leave. She told me a few times where she had spoken to disfellowshipped people, when she didn't know the details of why they were disfellowshipped. She seemed obviously frightened of these people.

At the very end, when I literally had to leave for an appointment, I made mention of my sister and how she now refuses to speak to me because I stopped studying. I guess this got her interest, as she said, "I'll come by and we can talk about it."

Anyway, I took the magazines but don't really expect to see her again. I think she will go back and talk to our old BS teacher and he will tell her how hopeless we are. I think I made the comment that he had "given up on us." She can mark another hour on her pioneering time card, a mag placement and a return visit. Bonus!

The one thing that I did ask her about, was why they have to keep track of all their efforts, to be recognized by men. She said it was important to keep track, since that was how they knew they were following Christ's commands to preach to the entire earth. I simply asked, "Why do the men have to keep track? Don't you think Jehovah can keep track?"

She was very good at her street witnessing. It will be interesting to see if she shows up on my doorstep. I'm not sure I want to invite this into my house again.

14

Subliminal Messages Dispensed Through Memes and Imagery

by Faithful Witness in

this might sound like an abstract idea, but i would love to hear your thoughts.

there seem to be so many questions that can not be answered in their literature and research materials.

there are things they just "know," even though they are often unable to find where it was published in printed material.. how many of their beliefs are being changed, shifted and spread throughout the congregation, through use of comments alone?

Faithful Witness

Thank you for that link, jgnat!

30

You will need to see this JW holding a stupid sign.

by Iamallcool in

jw
friends

.

Faithful Witness

He has a lip beard!

14

Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 03-09-2014 WT Study (KING OF ETERNITY)

by blondie in

w = watchtower.

wt publications http://www.a2z.org/wtarchive/archive.htm (old).

united nations http://www.randytv.com/secret/unitednations.htm.

Faithful Witness

(sound of record screeching to a stop)... What? Wait! WHO is King? I thought they said Christ was King!

Are they about to reveal that Jehovah and Christ ARE actually one?

This is so confusing!

How can a JW honestly serve and believe these ever-changing statements?

I am really beginning to understand why I never made it into the JW's. I was unable to follow and believe what constantly shifted. I really thought JW's believed that Christ was King. My mother told me recently that Satan is actually ruling right now, so she also appears to be confused.

I checked jw.org and searched "Jesus is King." Here is some of what I found. I have included links for each article and page I found.

Book: Draw Close to Jehovah

Jesus Sets Justice on Earth

Chapter 15, Paragraph 20:

Since becoming the Messianic King in 1914, Jesus has promoted justice in the earth.

Chapter 16, Paragraph 16: (another interesting fact - elders are princes)

Notice the prophetic description of “princes,” or elders, recorded by Isaiah: “Look! A king will reign for righteousness itself; and as respects princes, they will rule as princes for justice itself.”

Do You Believe in Jesus?

We also believe that Jesus is now ruling as King of God’s heavenly Kingdom, which will soon bring peace to the entire earth.

Appeared in Good News from God

Who is Jesus Christ?

Paragraph 5: What is Jesus Doing Now?

Now Jesus is ruling as King in heaven, and his followers are announcing that good news worldwide.

Soon, Jesus will use his power as King to put an end to all suffering and those who cause it. Millions who exercise faith in Jesus and obey him will enjoy life in a paradise on earth.

More clarification coming soon to a KH near you:

WT Study Edition February, 2014:

Hail Christ - The Glorious King!

Jehovah installed his Son as his Messianic King in the heavens in 1914. ‘The scepter of his kingdom is a scepter of uprightness,’ so the righteousness and equity of his reign are guaranteed. His authority is legitimate, since ‘God is his throne.’ That is, Jehovah is the foundation of his kingdom. Moreover, Jesus’ throne will last “forever and ever.” Are you not proud to be serving Jehovah under such a mighty, God-appointed King?

What is the Kingdom of God? Bible Questions

Rulers. God has appointed Jesus Christ as King of the Kingdom and has given him more authority than any human ruler could ever have. (Matthew 28:18) Jesus uses this power only for good, since he has already proved to be a reliable and compassionate Leader. (Matthew 4:23; Mark 1:40, 41; 6:31-34; Luke 7:11-17) Under God’s direction, Jesus has selected persons from all nations who will “ rule as kings over the earth ” with him in heaven.—Revelation 5:9, 10.

Awake December 2012: Accurate Bible Prophecy, Part 8

"Let Your Kingdom Come" from paragraph 2:

As the appointed King of this Kingdom, Jesus Christ carries out God’s will in heaven and on earth.

14

Subliminal Messages Dispensed Through Memes and Imagery

by Faithful Witness in

this might sound like an abstract idea, but i would love to hear your thoughts.

there seem to be so many questions that can not be answered in their literature and research materials.

there are things they just "know," even though they are often unable to find where it was published in printed material.. how many of their beliefs are being changed, shifted and spread throughout the congregation, through use of comments alone?

Faithful Witness

This might sound like an abstract idea, but I would love to hear your thoughts. There seem to be so many questions that can not be answered in their literature and research materials. There are things they just "know," even though they are often unable to find where it was published in printed material.

How many of their beliefs are being changed, shifted and spread throughout the congregation, through use of comments alone? I have observed my father (JW convert of just a few years) using strange phrasing, and repeating statements... "They are smarter than me..."

Many of these believes might fall under JW "common knowledge." Those "in the know" have their ear to the ground, and are hearing thoughts and speculations repeated.

"Will this memorial be our last?" It could be! I know I won't miss it!

MEME

noun [meem]

a cultural item that is transmitted by repetition and replication in a manner analogous to the biological transmission of genes.

a cultural item in the form of an image, video, phrase, etc., that is spread via the Internet and often altered in a creative or humorous way.

Is it possible that they are planting these comments in their public talks and WT studies, so the flock will have something new to "think about" and expand on, during those times when they are looking for appropriate topics they can discuss together? (such as in field service... are worldly topics ever discussed, or do they stick to rehashing JW ideas?)

Really, the same old conversation that they have been having since before 1975, about this "definitely" being the time of the end... has to get very tiresome. How can they help the faithful JW's to keep their zeal, if they don't have any new things to say?

Or new pictures to look at...

Also, consider the images used in their literature. I am not going to suggest that there are any subliminal images being inserted (Jehovah would not allow THAT!)... but I noticed that the back cover of the July 15, 2013 Watchtower magazine is dedicated to "Look at the Artwork!"

The beautiful pictures and photographs that are painstakingly produced are there for a purpose. They are teaching aids that make us think and feel. They can be especially helpful when we prepare for and participate in the Watchtower Study.

I am just making my own observation. The comments made about photographs, illustrations and timelines are sometimes quite interesting. When I was a Bible student who attended meetings, I remember making note of some of the comments made, as if they somehow "added" to my understanding. I also made a few comments myself, that received praise after the meetings. That was such a good feeling, to be recognized as a good student. It encouraged me to come up with more new ways to reinforce ideas that were in the articles. (argh! SO glad I woke up before it was too late!)

How many of these comments are prescribed to the speakers and even members of the congregation? The comments make the articles and topics more pertinent and easier to understand, right? What is the harm in that? Is every morsel of "food" that comes from the society, helping to keep them close in this time of the end?

20

JW vs Jehovah's Witnesses

by Da.Furious in

apologies if this was discussed earlier.

i tried to search for a similar topic but couldnt find one.. anyway, i am an active jw or is it jehovah's witness?.

recently i noticed a trend, mainly found between teenagers and older techie brothers, of referring to themselves as jws.

Faithful Witness

Great observation!

It reminds me of the Mormons calling themselves "LDS."

22

My conversation with my mother in law.

by StephaneLaliberte in

my wife and i recently took the decision to fade out progressively and we are now in the stage where we no longer assist to our meetings.

in this process, we have told the truth to our respective parents but have not forced ourselves upon them; meaning that: we will talk about it when you want to.

as a result, my mother in-law already had some conversations with my wife on why we no longer went, but never brought up the subject with me, at least, up until yesterday.. she was telling us that a good deal of people miss us at the meeting and i answered that i missed them also.

Faithful Witness

"MIL: Yeah, I know it doesn’t make sense, but you take what you need and leave the bad stuff out."

Can you explain why this policy does not apply to any other church? One of the first things they taught me in my BS sessions, was that all other religions are false, and to be avoided.

They told me, "You can't drink a little bit of poison, and expect to live."

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You made some excellent points! :) Thanks for sharing.